Are the terms
and conditions of knowledgetoactions’ trading course legal? Are you having problems getting a refund or canceling
your traders university course?
I recently became aware of Knowledge to
Action’s (www.knowledgetoaction.com), Greg Secker’s
company which offers the apparently award
winning “Trader’s University” Course. This is an equity trading course that
promises just 1% downside risk (per trade… but over a few days you could lose
all of your money by trading equity or forex, so be careful)

So, is there a scam in this equity
trading course?

Is their a scam running on these
investment and equity trading courses, or are they perfectly legal and
fair? Is their advertising overly
aggressive?

These companies use “free
seminars” that promise to teach you
some untold
secret about trading equity to wealth in just 2 hours, with no hard
sell. I have spoken to someone who went on the KnowledgetoAction seminar and it seems that this is
far from the truth. Whilst the seminars are at best, informative,
they do not really
have much of substance. The “secrets” are only
partially revealed – enough to get you salivating for more but certainly not enough to
get you share trading. And certainly, there is no concrete evidence that
trading equity with these methods will make you more money that it will lose
you.
Plenty of testimonials were given of people who had been on the
traders university course at knowledgetoaction, and they had all, conveniently, made
money. Those who had
lost their money would not have been asked for their testimonial I
presume.

If you sign up for a course, you won’t notice
this, but you will be signing not just a payment slip for the payment
of the course but also a CONTRACT with 10 clauses to it. This contract is the
small print which is on the back of the form that you are signing. Because your form is
attached to a clipboard, you probably won’t even know that it has this
smallprint contract on it! And clause 3 states that you agree to a £500
non-refundable fee being applied if you cancel – even if you change your mind
just a few hours later!!

Is this
illegal? Can knowledgetoaction and Greg
Secker’s trader’s university hold back my refund or is this a
con?

Well, there are a number of
regulations in place that would suggest that this is
not legal. For instance,

The “Unfair terms in consumer
contract regulations” state that unfair terms cannot be entered in a contract
if this would put the consumer at a disadvantage. Knowledgetoaction are
claiming that £500 is not unfair, but to me, a 25% penalty for cancelling just
a few hours later seems very unfair. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it is a
scam, but I would certainly be questioning the legality of
it.

Are there any other laws that
might prohibit knowledge2action from doing this to people
who sign up to their traders university course?

There are.

As with distance selling, there
is a law that gives the consumer a cooling off period when purchasing a good
or service in a place that is not the trader’s usual place of business. The
regulation is “The Cancellation of contracts made in a consumer’s home or
place of work, etc..”. This regulation gives the consumer 7 days to cancel
their purchase if they change their mind for whatever reason. -irrespective of
what it says in the contract.

Does Greg
Secker know this? What happens when you
contact knowledgetoaction to complain about your refund?

Apparently,
knowledgetoaction will plainly refuse to issue a full refund, stating that their terms and conditions plainly state
that you have agreed to the £500 penalty. If you push them a little more,
they will just keep saying this over and over again like a broken
record. Good
old fashioned British customer service has gone out of the window and has been
replaced by what really feels like a money-making operation that
considers fairness to have no value.

Are there other laws that
might protect me from
knowledgetoaction’s “scam”, “con”, or “terms and conditions”
?

There are. The company could be accused
of taking part in Aggressive Commercial Practice when they pressured you into
signing up for the course by telling you that you would never get that special
price again. But this is not true, in fact, you could get that price again
just by attending another seminar.

So what can you do if
Knowledge to Action, Greg Secker, The Trader’s University, have treated you
unfairly, if you feel
you fell for a con, a scam?

Well, you could phone them up
first and try to settle it directly with KnowledgetoAction, but this might be
difficult.
Next, you could contact your credit card company to ask
for a chargeback of the amount that you paid, stating your reason.
Then you
could contact the Office of Fair Trade and Consumer Direct. They will be able
to advice you with the steps to take.

It seems
that Knowledgetoaction are not afraid of legal action, they have probably had this kind
of problem before and they possibly have a whole team of lawyers ready to
scare you if you try to get your money back. But if you feel that they
don’t deserve your
money, you should definitely give it a go. There are plenty of
regulations that back you up. And the only way of knowing
if this is indeed a scam, would be to go all the
way.

Please let us know your opinion
and experience with knowledgetoaction, the trader’s university, and Greg
Secker’s course. This blog is open to all and we are trying to get a balanced
discussion on the subject. No posts will be deleted as long as they are deemed
genuine and truthful.
You are welcome to copy this article in its entirety
and post it on your own blog.

31
comments:

Ian said…

Hi
Just read your blog on
Knowledge to Action. Very good information.
My brother and I had signed up
for the course after attending a free seminar, a few days ago.(27/01/09) The
following day something got me thinking about it, like it just seemed to
good.
I looked at the deposit sheet we got and as we were never told about the
refund conditions I turned it over and in very faint print,
read section 2.3. None-refundable deposit.
I called The office of fair
trading and explained the whole situation. They told me exactly what to write
in a letter to ask for the deposits back, as they said that in England no
matter what it says on the form, everyone has 7 days to ask for a full refund.
The person stressed that it is law, and the company has to give you a full
refund.
If anyone
needs a copy of what needs to be put in the letter then I will be happy to
tell you.
I am now waiting as I sent the letter today and as I only
paid the deposit 2 days ago.
Ian

30 January 2009 16:20

Robert Jones said…

Yeah, I’m having the same
problem. Could you tell me what you had to do and who you wrote to?
irishplan22@hotmail.com

05 February 2009 11:51

Anonymous said…

Hi i have attended a free
seminar on 21/03/2009. I was offerd the application form but the guy said I
have to feel/sign it
up on the spot or we take the form from You.They don’t want people to
take forms home and read them carefuly.They offered a 1 grand discount
for a promise to give them Your trading history for 6 months after the course
so people would fell
easyer for signing up.

22 March 2009 04:50

Anonymous said…

Hello,

I have recently attend to one of
these free seminars, and they near catch
me. Their selling practices were
really hard. And today the have phone me, I was at work so I do not
know what they wanted, but they will call again. I will keep you
informed.

Any way I would like to know if
they offer something real or is really an
scam?, because I would like to learn what they promise at the
seminar.

24 March 2009 15:07

Ian said…

Hello
everyone

IIan here, the guy who posted a
commment at the top and contacted the Office of Fair Trading. Well after
writing off to them I did get my full deposit back. In the letter I gave them
10 day to pay up or I would pass on all the information to the Office of Fair
Trading. 11 days later and a another letter sent alwasy by registered post I
got all the money and no moans or groans from them.
Everyone just remember
that YOU do have the
law on your side.

24 March 2009 22:01

Investment sniffer said…

Hey Ian,

Well done on getting your money
back.

The law is on our side, but the
problem is many people will have signed up to the course, and then when they
read the cancellation fee on the back they will think they are
stuck.

Knowledgetoaction
are breaking the law just by not informing you that you have the right to
cancel!

Hopefully this blog will inform as many people as
possible.

If anybody has a website, please
make a link to this blog: it will make it easier for
people to find it and get a refund from these “traders university”
people.

25 March 2009 02:50

Anonymous said…

This blog is excllent! I thought
there was something not quote right about the
whole approach of Knowledge to Action.

If you really want to learn to
trade – do the research yourself on the web, looking for a technical
approaches. E.g. using various indicators like trend lines, oscillators (RSI,
MACD), lines of support/ resistance, fibonacci trace backs etc. then use demo
accounts to trade for at least 6 months risk free to get a feel for what works
for you. Keep your head in the finacial news – e.g. Bloomberg/
Reuters.

Question is… if their trading
strategies are so good, why sell the secrets?
Surely, the opportunity cost of trying to get people to sign up to a course is
higher than executing a successful trading strategy?? The truth is, Knowledge
to Action make money by selling something with zero risk. What is the cost of
sales for knowledge? Zero… it’s all profit, no risk. Not only that,
they probably get
sales commission for introducing you as a trader to their broker network, or
selling trading software or a market data
subscription.

There is NO
QUICK AND EASY WAY. You can’t just spend 30min
per day to trade well… if you’re that good you should work for a bank!
A good trader is able to anticipate market movements ahead of time or react
very quickly, before the masses take away any opportunities. It’s you vs. all
the other traders – end of!

29 March 2009 07:53

Anonymous said…

. I attended a 2 hour intro on
Friday 27th March on FX.After a i hour high pressure
sale (was told we would see live trading to get us there at their so called trading
room) we were asked, who wants to learn to make money put up tour
handsThe rest of yo
can leave and don`t come back.As this was done at their business address.does
the refind in 7 days not apply. ie the real reason to get us there? The
women conducting the meeting was a so called FX trader
expert but did not
know what she was talking about.I promptly left with a number of other
people.

30 March 2009 01:32

Ian said…

Hi all.
According to The
Office of Fair Trading, if you sign up on their actual premises then they do
have firmer ground to fight to keep YOUR money, but as long as you ask for
your money within 7 days of paying then by law they cannot refuse to give
you your money back. If anyone wants to know the exact terminology to use
in the a letter asking for your money back then just reply to this and
I will post it for you.

30 March 2009 07:01

Dinos said…

Hi There,

Does anybody knows what I should
do if I dont want to attend the course and dont want them to charge me? Is
there any legal way after the 7 days to avoid making the full payment (even if
I loose my initial deposit)?

they tried to charge my credit
card but they couldnt charge me but I received an email from them saying that
they are going to charge me interest?

Regards,

Dinos

13 May 2009 12:50

Ian S Rutter said…

Hi
I do believe they are trying to scare you
by threatening you with interest being added on, Who are they, a secret
bank?
The Office of Fair Trading will be very interested in the tactics that they are
using on you.
Tell you bank under no
circumstances are they to be paid, then contact the Office of Fair Trading and
tell then EXACTLY what is happening.
It is illigal what they are
trying.

13 May 2009 13:12

Topbooker said…

Hi Dinos.

Did knowledgetoaction tell you
how you could cancel when you signed up? Did they tell you that you had 1 week
to cancel without loosing anything? If you experience is the same as mine,
then NO, they didn’t
tell you any of this.

By law, they
should have informed you of these rights.

Therefore, they are in the wrong as
well.

Contact the OFT like Ian says,
and they will be able to advise you best.

13 May 2009 16:40

Anonymous said…

Is there anyone out there who
has done the course?

21 May 2009 23:53

Dinos said…

Hi There,

They want me
to come in an arrangement with them and pay the for the course even if I dont
attend, I think this isnt fair, I dont think that any consumer has to pay for
something that they decided is not for them.

I’ll keep you posted with any
new developments.

Dinos

28 May 2009 16:48

Ian said…

That’s funny, them trying to get
you to come to some arrangement. That arrangement will be to their
benefit not yours. Do not arrange anything.
Keep all corospondance and make copies, as emails are legal in the eyes of the
law.

I am not advercating any
courses, but I am having success with a system by a guy called Guy Cohen. It
is called Flag trading – http://www.guycohen.com/us/cmd.asp?af=992188

Do a review on him from google.
He also has 3 books on amazon.co.uk Publshed by the FT.

Or just sogn up for his free
newsletter, you get free videos, articles. http://www.flag-trader.com
The vdeos on
Video Alert are great and very informative.

Kind
regards

29 May 2009 03:19

Anonymous said…

Hi Ian,

You say that you are not
advocating any courses… and then you give the URL for a trading course of
which you are an affiliate (we can see this by the af=992188 in the URL) – so
if we sign up, you would make a commission.

The course might still be good,
but I’m just saying that we can’t take your comments as being
unbiased.

29 May 2009 03:49

Ian said…

Take it as you want. I do know
what an affilate link is as IT is my business.

Like I said, do a Google on the
guy, do your homework and make a decison from there.

All I know is that it is working
for me.

29 May 2009 03:59

Anonymous said…

Hello,

Wao, I was quite astonished by
all the bloggs I read above. I went recently to one of the ‘knowledge to
Action Trader’ seminar. I did not sign up because I thought it was too good to
be true. I said if I have discovered the secret of trading, I will not sell it
to anyone. I rather make money from it than doing some hard selling at
seminars.

I would really like to know if
anyone has attended the training and what was the result. I would be very
pleased to know of their success rate.

Thanks.

01 June 2009 10:48

Anonymous said…

Hi
everyone.

I signed up for the course and
then cancelled 5 days later. Thanks to the help on this
post, with a correctly prepared letter, K2A finally agreed to refund my £500.
I also threatened Watchdog if they didnt pay up and that seemed to
help!

Dont let these crooks get away
with it.

02 June 2009 03:14

Anonymous said…

I have booked to go on a free
‘Traders Secrets’ seminar tonight. However, after reading this blog I am not
so sure it is a good idea. Like the previous entries, I would be really keen
to know the outcome of anyone having attended the paid for training course.
Anyone?

02 June 2009 04:33

Anonymous said…

ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION – WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO
GO TO THE BOTHER OF ARRANGING SEMINARS AND TRYING THE HARD SELL IF THEY WERE
SUCCESSFUL TRADERS?

Went to there seminar and found
it an eye opener, and afterwards a complete waste of an
evening. A very high pressure,
unprofessional outfit, who cannot back up their claims. Don’t believe
the hype! IF IT SEEMS
TO BE TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT IS.

STAY WELL
AWAY

02 June 2009 08:52

Anonymous said…

Dear all,

Very interesting article – thank
you for posting and thank you to all the kind people who have taken the time
to comment.

Here are a few words from me to
you all as I’d like to give something back. I hope you find this
useful.

Despite the lack of drinking
water and some luxury chockie bickies, I found that this was a great FREE
introduction to this ‘award winning course’.

Throughly enjoyed the enthusiasm
of the presenter and the assistants were extremely polite, and seemed to be
very genuine, obviously when you attend you may not have the same experience,
but I certainly enjoyed myself and picked up a few tips.

The good news is, if you’re
looking for a get rich scheme then this it! The bad news is the owner has
beaten you to it! Needless to say I didn’t and wouldn’t part with my hard
earned cash, even if they dropped the price
significantly.

If you decide to ‘invest’, then
be prepared to stump up a couple of K’s for the course and make sure you have
about 5k to invest – at the very least, anything less and your chances of
blowing-out your account are too
great.

Hmm.. did I just say “Invest” A
bit of a loose term in this context, as this is all about spread-betting, it’s
more akin to yes you guessed it, gambling, masked as
betting with a strategy. Some you win, some you lose and some more you
win, or at least that’s the theory, but don’t become too attached to your
investment, you could easily lose the lot. But remember that’s true with
businesses, and trading the real stock market. There’s ALWAYS an element of
risk and you could ALWAYS lose the lot. You have to speculate to
accumulate.

If you’re a risk taker and
willing to risk life savings or a proportion of them, then this might be
suitable for you – at least attend the free seminar, but go objectively and
cut through the hype, I’d hate to
know that someone is out of pocket after having made a. wrong choice and b.
some bad investment decisions when putting theory into
practice.

Remember, there are no
guarantees with this, just the guarantee that you could learn some new skills
that might help you earn money as a secondary income.

I have no doubt that there are
some very successful students that have ‘graduated’ (jeee that term sounds cheap
too! I know how hard I studied for my proper university graduation!)
but I think the coaches are in a league of their own.

The use of ‘University’ is a bit of
a cheap shot and disrespects academic institutions that give people real
degrees, but is this a degree you want or a way to make money? Trading
College doesn’t have the same authenticity I guess. Hmm. Also as mentioned
previously. Award
winning? Maybe so, but come-on!

So for those uncertain peeps,
questioning should I stay or should I go, the very fact that you’re
asking this question means STAY! Don’t invest a dime; in terms of time or
money.

But if that’s not justified,
here are some more reasons when to run for the hills:

1. If you don’t like the idea of
gambling. No matter how they market this, it is gambling – it’s even
acknowledged by government as gambling, hence no need to pay capital gains tax
or stamp duty.

2. If you think you’re going to
become a millionaire shortly after you get your account configured – think
again

3. If you’re either greedy or
fearful, you’ll be…. Well not exactly quids in.

And proceed with caution
if…

1. You’ve got enough funding and
see this as a bit of entertainment

2. You enjoy
taking risks

3. You live each day as it comes
and don’t worry too
much about the consequences of your actions

4. Happy to sign up for a course
with out having any time to think about it

5. Don’t mind adding to Greg’s wealth whilst
potentially minimising yours

All in all, interesting company
that will MAKE some people and BREAK others.

Are you brave enough? I know I’m
certainly not!

Cheers and good luck, what ever
you decide.

God bless!

08 June 2009 14:29

Anonymous said…

Hey, great last
comment!!

But personally I would prefer to
run a business that I understand and can “control” more than running a
spread-betting strategy that can just as easily go against you than with you.
It could take £10,000 of losses before you finally work out that your strategy
is not working!

08 June 2009 15:34

wolfnud said…

i attended the forex course in
March and thought it was very good although there was intense pressure to
buy further training and mentoring. however i have been making a 10%
return on my capital per month since then and have paid for the course and
equates to about 15 minutes work per day so i would recoomend it but only to
people who do what you are told to do on the course and who can afford to risk
losing money as that will always happen with trading but if you are consistent
you can make steady gains.

13 June 2009 09:49

Anonymous said…

Real money is being made every
day on the Forex and Stock markets! It is the only game in town apart from a
Job! Learn to trade and then get better at it!

16 June 2009 01:06

Anonymous said…

Sure, there is real money to be
made. But there is also real money to be lost.
There are plenty of
professionals out there. Banks, brokers, etc… with plenty of
experience.
How is
a week-long course going to allow anyone to compete with these
guys?
For every winner in spread-betting, there has to be a
loser.
If
knowledgetoaction have such a great system, why are they training people to
use it? Surely this would mean that their own traders will have more
competition?!!! … or maybe they make more money from the courses than from
actual trading.

16 June 2009 03:29

Anonymous said…

You guys sound like a bunch of
losers and I bet you all have 9 to 5 jobs, yes you can win and yes you can
lose, but if you want to succeed then you will, not in 20 minutes a day as some may have you believe
but you will be succesfull over time, stop bitching and start to focus
your energy on what YOU want to achieve in life??

16 June 2009 15:04

Ian said…

Typical. Big guy spouts his
mouth but leaves his name as anonymous.

17 June 2009 01:44

Frank said…

Hi Ian I have just signed up for
aKnowledge to action two day course on the 17/06/09 but would like to change
my mind and get a refund could you send me the information you sent in your
letter to get a refund please.

18 June 2009 13:49

Anonymous said…

Hi Frank,
There is a whole
post on this blog about what to write in the letter.. make sure you read all the
posts as each one has something useful.
The one with a sample letter
is
http://knowledgetoaction.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html
You
should be able to get your money back, no problem! Other people have!
Make
sure you come back to write about your experience and help
others!

19 June 2009 02:22

Ian said…

Hello Frank
Sorry for not
getting back, very busy.
You have the law on your side if you act within 7
days of placing the deposit. That actually means that if you send the letter
as a registered letter on the 7th day then it is still within the law.It
counts within the 7 day ruling, even if they get the letter on the 8th
day.

As a heading and inside the body
of your letter, add this:

Under the Doorstep Selling
Consumer Protection Regulation, I have the right according to the Cancellation
of Contract Away From Business Premises Regulations to ask for a full
refund.

After that you can write
anything you like.

Kind
regards

Jean said…

what they
‘promise’ for the results of attending a free seminar is a bloody
lie. I attended the course, and find out it’s a
blood-sucking business. You pay for more than 2k for this course and
you are expected to sign up master course or forex course each will cost more
than 5k. What is more.

You are told
off not signing up for using ADVFN/ Sharescope and not opening account with MF
Global where they collect their commisions from. They excuse their stargeties
can only work under those platforms.

3 coaching sessions valid within
two months. By the
time you were notified who your coach was, there were only 7 dates (out of 2
months) available! whatis worse. you write to your client service. Never get a reply.
Anything against K2A,
you will never get a reply. Any profit you can bring them, you will get
special care.

Advance
trading consultants, Adam and Carla use the word ‘vouch’ to deceive you when
you want to cancel your course within that 7 days period. Well, they drag you into the
trap. After you attended the course, there is no support afterwards. Bye. Bye.
K2A has got your money. You eithor die or live.

24 June 2009 03:25

Andy said…

When did you attend the course?
I was supposed to attend it last weekend but decided against it a few weeks
before and told them i wanted a cancellation. I hadn’t paid anything, i said i
had to transfer money to my account for the deposit so this was never taken.
They didn’t let it go though, constant phone calls from
some guy, Mark i think, trying to get me to come in and see the live trading
floor and wouldn’t take no for an answer. Emails were ignored. Just told him
no i am not interested and leave it at that. Eventually he stopped breathing
and shut up. I shouldn’t have been so blind in the first place to sign up but
the next day i thought things through and realized. Glad i didn’t waste 2.5k
on the course!

24 June 2009 09:50

Anonymous said…

I have just comeback from a free
2 hour seminar.
Yes it’s the usual hard sell and
sign today and we will knock off £1k etc etc. and yes they probably do get
kick back commissions from the brokers etc.
But what i want to know is
whether anyone has actually signed up and done the 2 day course and is it any
good ? are they making money

25 June 2009 10:12

Anonymous said…

A question for anyone on this
forum who was surprised that the 2 hr free seminar had a sales agenda – What
planet are you living on? Of course it has a sales agenda! That is how
business works. Every company has a sales aspect to it. No one is going to
give anything away for free! It just doesn’t make sense –
Duh!

04 July 2009 13:29

Anonymous said…

Ian get a life. You have never
even been on the course. You guys on these site are completely pathetic.
Either you believe you can make money or not from trading. If you don’t, then
don’t waste your time going to free seminars.

Why are you all so against other
people making money?

04 July 2009 13:38

Ian said…

It’s amazing that those who post
comments with derogatory remarks always seem to pose as
anonymous.
Sad!

04 July 2009 15:55

Mark said…

I totally agree with you
Ian!

What’s more, we’re not
discussing whether or not money can be made from trading. It can. but it can
also be lost.

What we’re discussing, is that
the “trader’s
university” is scammy.
They promise to reveal
secrets in the free seminar, but they don’t. Then they have a very hard sell.
They promise “easy returns” if you follow their system, which, after talking
to a guy who got into trading using some of these methods, aren’t that
easy…
AND,
most importantly, they try to trick people by asking for money upfront and
then refusing to pay out refunds -despite their legal obligation to do
so!

Who’s making
the real money here – the student/trader, or Greg Secker’s trader’s
university? I’m sure it’s the latter!!!

So whether or not their course
might be “good”, it is
still a scammy company that I wouldn’t want to be associated
with.

05 July 2009 00:18

rick said…

I attended the free seminar
yesterday (04.07.09) and whilst sceptical about signing some aspects of what
was on offer seemed useful to someone not familiar with
trading.

I was hoping to find comments
from people who had actually paid to do the 2 day course but have not found
any on the web. The main thread here is from people who paid on the day and
then decided this was not for them (anom please dont respond by telling me to
get a life as its not very helpful)

05 July 2009 02:54

Anonymous said…

Rick read Jean 24 June
above.

06 July 2009 23:26

Dave said…

Can anyone tell me how I can get
my £500 deposit back I signed up on the 11th June and then cancelled on the
16th June, but they quote the contarct. Any help please. Cheers
Dave

07 July 2009 14:11

Anonymous said…

Its a scam if
you live near one of their seminar locations spread the word

07 July 2009 14:13

Ian said…

Hi Dave

You have the law on your side if
you act within 7 days of placing the deposit. If you are going to write a
letter add this:-

Under the Doorstep Selling
Consumer Protection Regulation, I have the right according to the Cancellation
of Contract Away From Business Premises Regulations to ask for a full
refund.

Then add what every you
want.

This is what The Office of Fair
Trading told me to write. I actually got my full deposit
back.

07 July 2009 15:34

Anonymous said…

I would like
to advise anyone considering doing the Tradersuniversity Course, to
immediately cancel, and get your money back. I have attended the 2 hour free
seminar, the weekend resindential and indeed a further course called
“MasterTrader”. I have followed the rules, as given by Greg Secker himself.
Perhaps the TradersUniversity trading rules work in long term trending
markets, (2002-2007) but for now, with markets all over the place and one
piece of bad news sending the market crashing, its not the time. You can learn
what I was tight from a book also. It much cheaper than the 5000 pounds I
spent in total. I have lost about 2000 pounds in addition to this 5000 in
current market conditions. I also had a colleague who lost 10000 pounds
following the TradersUniversity rules. He decided to question the testimonials
on thier web site and also the ones given one we eventually signed up. He
received no reply from anyone at TraderUniversity. He still hasn’t to this
day. Decide yourself, but you have been warned!!

This entry was written by TradingMentor, posted on June 21, 2009 at 8:00
pm, and filed under Articles, Trading Courses and tagged Greg Secker, Scams.

« Investment Trading System Scams Exposed — and How to
Avoid Them

Reasons Why Brokers Can’t Help You Trade
»

6
Comments

francesco

Posted July 28, 2009 at 11:33
pm | Permalink

Hi Ian!
I found your comments
very useful.
I got trapped in the same
situation with these guys and I paid the £ 500 deposit and I already regret it
after a few hours.
would you be so kind to send me an e-mail with a full
content of the letter?I am not very good with letters or shall I say I am
rubbish?

Thank you very
much!

Guy

Posted September 3, 2009 at
4:16 pm | Permalink

HI.

I have just tried to cancel the
course after 5 weeks since the seminar. As I cannot attend now and do not have
the spare time to trade at present.
I am very interested to learn, but do
not want to sign up to additional courses and have to pay the monthly subs for
the software.
They
have said NO I cannot have my money back. The suggested letter that has
been written is for refunding the deposit, but I was never offered to pay a
deposit and they would not let me take the form away with me.
OFT say that
if the t&C on on the black payment slip I signed then I could have
problems getting the money back.
What should I do.

Regards
G

ade

Posted September 4, 2009 at
1:32 am | Permalink

I attended the 2hr free seminer
yesterday and I am hoping to sign up for the course at a later date. It is
true that you cannot learn a lot within 2 hours and the 2 days course itself
might seem quite intensive. However I am still thinking about it. I have been
trying to find at least someone who had attended the course and would be able
to give some unbiased opinion about the couse. I am interested in learning how
to trade and would welcome any suggestions. thanks

Martin
Everard

Posted September 9, 2009 at
12:03 pm | Permalink

Good day to you all, anonymous
or otherwise,

I have now read all the comments
here AFTER attending the 2+hr seminar yeaterday. No bickies – only coffee, tea
or water.

Yes, it’s a sales operation but
a pleasant experience nonetheless – even fun but with a serious
side.

The so-called offer available
only on the day is questionable as the correspondence below will show. I
haven’t signed up for the course but was offered an instalment plan, which I
am not taking up. I have issued them a challenge to put their money where
their mouth is rather than mine. I wonder if I will hear from them
again.

Read this and make up your own
mind.

“Dear Martin Raymond

I hope you enjoyed the preview
‘Traders Secrets’ trading Seminar you attended yesterday.

I have some exciting news! I
have 2 discounted places available to attend the entire trader coaching
programme for only £1997 + vat.

Please will you let me know as
soon as possible if you are interested as I am sure that these will not be
available for much longer.

What you will receive as part of
the 6 month programme

The entire Traders University
Coaching Programme including:

2 x Full days immersive trader
training with our top trader coaches
Full trading account setup and
software configuration support before the programme, so you can start making
money immediately following the course.
3 x one-on-one coaching sessions,
with a professional trader, holding your hand through the live process.
6
months (24 weeks) 1 hour trader call coaching sessions, designed to reveal hot
stock opportunities EVERY week.
VIP repeat access to re-sit the course as
many times within 12 months

Normal price is
£2997+VAT

Discount offer ONLY WHILE PLACES
ARE AVILABLE at £1997 + vat (for those willing to share their trading
results). Please be aware I cannot guarantee that I will have any places
available at this greatly reduced price tomorrow.

To take advantage of this offer,
please reply to this email sally.heintz@knowledgetoaction.co.uk or call
0207 751 8900 today. Places will be awarded on a first come first basis.

I will endeavour to contact you
back straight away but please be aware I cannot guarantee these places will be
available, so it might be worthwhile to call me if you have any
questions.

Best
regards,

Sally Heintz,
Client Services Manager”

And my
reply:

“Dear
Sally,

I detect a
high pressure sales pitch here.

This offer was made yesterday as
one only to be had on the day – obviously you did not get the 6 people you
said it was limited to to sign up or the sales pitch yesterday was a con to
get people to sign up. I would like to think that it was the former – that
fewer than 6 took up the offer.

Of course the
alternative is that you might have planted one or two in the audience so as to
give the feeling of enthusiasm for the offer “pour encourager les autres”.
There seem to be a number of comments on the web about your sales
techniques.

The deal I will do with you is
that you sign me up to the course at no cost initially and all fees will be
paid from profits traded with my account. This will confirm your confidence in
your product, your strategies and your ability to succeed in 83% of your
trades and, if successful, you will receive all your fees as above. Let’s
share the risk and share the reward.

Naturally, the testimonial for this will be
cast iron and unchallengeable. But somehow, I do not think that I will hear
from you again. But yesterday’s seminar was a very interesting and
enlightening experience.

By the way, I am looking for an
investor for my unique 3D exhibition gallery project – see the webpages shown
below my signature. Should one of you more successful traders feel ambitious
to contribute to this multi-faceted business proposal, please ask them to get
in touch. In fact, it might be something that the directors of Traders
University might like to sponsor – KnowledgetoAction is a very good byline for
it.

Kind regards

Martin Everard
mreverard@btinternet.com“

Adl
Dmnsion

Posted October 7, 2009 at
10:43 pm | Permalink

Dear All,
Go, it’s a highly
important educational experience and will hopefully, with follow on reading
change your life and the direction of your family
forever.

There’s no
agressive selling. It’s high level mind control, beautifully coriographed.
You’d pay a lot more to get such a high quality display for you to see up
close and personel.

You will want
to sign up. Just don’t.

Whilst I am
sure that – high sales pitch and/or sharp trading aside, there is a place for such courses in terms of, there
might be a book, but if you think you’ve had to pay for something good, it
might spurn your interest/dedication, there was something I
noticed.

The woman who did the free 2
hour trading course, rather stupidly mentioned
NLP / neuro linguistical programming in her talk.

I am a confessed know it all, I
do think I know better than you, probably, whoever you are. Yet had only
become familiar with this term around one month ago. It’s not really in common
use. She is so well versed in it that she’s forgotten that most people don’t
even know what it, that or one is. It is her consuming
passion.

NLP is mind
control and is used for inplanting ideas into your sub-contious without you
usually knowing, amoungst other things.

Why mention
this when you are speaking about getting someone to sign up on a sales pitch?
Maybe once they’ve signed up letting them know you like mind control is
OK.

It is something some con artists
and all our leading politicains are highly trained in.

The labour government and tories
currently spend a frighteningly large ammount of your tax money on a ‘charity’
which endorses its use, nameley Common Purpose, which helps train them in it,
which they then use to pursuade us:
to give all our powers and money to the
EU and that that’s in our best interests, take vaccines, drop incendiary bombs
on civilans in poor countries, etc.. Words such as the Iraqi “blunder”, which
sounds innocent, is not an accident. The positioning of hands during speeches,
which wierdly only the cabinet ministers, shadow, and PM feel necessary. It’s
not only to display their masonic allegiencies, agendas, but to push
associative programming into your head under your radar.

At the talk, their powerpoint
projections had a blue background, with white (I think) writing on, but with a
kind-of aura around the letters. The word risk always had a slight red tint to
this shimmer. The positive words had slight black. Very subtle. There will be
something in this’s – subliminal to 90% of people – use.

I know that
serious ammounts of NLP were in motion throughout the 2 hours, and I only know
a little about this, but the thread of the brainwash can be disrupted if you
ask anything slightly off what you are being lead into being taught and
therefore thinking about question. I could claim genius here, but must confess
that I was just doing this so I could get down the notes, so I needed to to be
disruptive to do this. Some of what they said I didn’t know and it is
interesting.

eg.
‘Any Questions?’
‘Will we
get any food?’
Look at their facial
exprression.

‘I’m excited.
I want to buy everyone a drink after to celebrate. Where’s the nearest boozer
to here. Who’s up for it?’
That’ll buy you a good minute to copy the stuff
down.

‘Do you want
to do the course?’
‘Where do I get hold of one of those forms, I’m so
keen.’
Reach for the form.
‘I’m off but I’ll get back to you next week,
when will I be able to come in?’
That sentence will not get
finished. You will not get to pick the form up and a nasty face will be
revealed. Yes, just like when you try and take a bone from beside a
dog.

Another good
one, if you’re falling behind is to mention NLP in one of your
questions/remarks, following their bringing it up. They are side tracked by
that one. They love to talk about it.

When you sign in: there’s a
table to fill the form in;
When you write notes for 2
hours: no table = stress position, like with interogation;
No breaks = used
in brainwashing;
No time to think properly
either; and, When you are to sign up with the paper contract, on clipboard, on
a table. Why no clipboards to take notes?

There’s no
hand outs. They want people to take notes as
they say. The info. piles in, most cannot keep up and she keeps jumping to the
next thing. This is just as you’ll get nothing propper down, and there’s not
enough paper either. You will feel it is just you
and that you’re a div, but you can’t be seen not listening when you are
constantly asked to look at stuff, nor looking when she gets you to write,
through paced talking and body language, which everyone follows, so is more
powerful, as you’ll be inclined to copy.

Again, this is
a tactic. Salsa dance instructors in England say
it could take years to learn. A Mexican taught me in 10 minutes, they bombard
you with info.. Too much to take in. you get confused. The next time you go
you have the associated bombardment of commands in your head. They will be
there forever and you cannot ever be any good until you unlearn them, thus you
have to go back and pine for their strangeley illusive skill, which looks so
very easy before you try it.

I would say do
the 2 hour course, but focus on copying the pictures and notes down. She spoke
so fast no one but me really seemend to be able to follow her. Then you can
try the system, which did really seem to have certain undeniable merits, and
see how it goes.

Another thing.
The people working there, barring the talker, looked a bit ropy. They’d have crooked their
neck if you’d have dropped a £20 on the floor behind you. They didn’t hold
them selves like credit card fraudsters or aristocratic loafers which I’ve
know.

Hopefully you’ll have a look
into what I say, stop worrying about a couple of grand and start worrying about the
hundred times’ that we’re all losing by following the brainwashing on the TV
and in the newspapers.

Check out NLP, Brian Gerrish,
NLP Fox News, on you tube.

I’ll try and answer any queries
posted, but won’t put my name as I want the pack they offer for free to get
out to me.

Allison

Posted October 9, 2009 at
12:25 pm | Permalink

Dear all,

I am in two minds reading your
course blogs. I agree that they should be more polite in giving the deposit
back to people who change their minds, however on the otherhand if they had
allowed me to i probably would have cancelled and never bothered to understand
what a huge business day trading is. In hounesty, if people were motivated
enough to read a book and learn from that i doubt they would even get to the
free seminar – too busy making money. I did the course 4 months ago and am
about to resit it. I pulled out of the markets pre summer for personal reasons
(to take summer away) and want to get back into it. K2A does not guarantee you
anything other than to give you a basic understanding and use of tools
available (and dont be too harsh for this they have to get you started some
how and you can change later to your preferred supplier). Its up to you to pay
them more or not for additional courses – i have a rule that they get no more
until i’ve made it on trades – thats fair is it not?
I have met with
several sucessful (non K2A) day traders since doing the course and gained
insight into how to develop a trading strategy that fits me better (maybe
better accounts to have and a more limited approach to the derivatives i will
trade on) – so i cant say the course wasnt worth the money. Without it i
wouldnt even be aware of how to place a trade etc. I am a fair person and
do think the course is
a bit too hard sell (acknowledging that clearly the people attending it DO
need some persuasion however to get them started)and it fails to align peoples
expectations ( – although i understand why – look how you guys are
already scared off). For me i never expected it to make me a ton of cash
straight away – of course there is a learning cost and at the end of the day
its down to me, not them, how sucessful i am. I blame both the course for not
making this clearer – even if at the end of the 2 day course (and the blame is
because its sad to see so many dis illusioned people) but i also blame you
niave people for expecting too much and not applying basic common sense. To
conclude, for anyone who hasnt the motivation to start themselves AND is
genuinly interested in learning about or to trade AND can afford the course
AND can afford to loose some small money whilst learning / developing personal
strategy then its a good place to start and i would reccomend it. What you do
afterwards is up to you. For those who think you pay £2.5k and walk away with
a profitable business – get a proper job as this is not for you.
Anyhow
guys i have tried to present a balanced argument so hope it
helps
Allison